The Tobacco Plant Project

[Smoked!]

Those things took off! Nice photos.

I was thinking about the square foot concept. Crop intensive farming is common in regions with limited resources. Many of the seed varieties, or traits, are specifically designed for particular conditions. In this case, I think the type of plant we are growing needs a bit more room. The leaves may grow 24 - 30 inches long. Guestimating angle and leaf curvature, that puts the approximate spread for the stalk at better than three feet. I'm not no math wiz, but I think one square foot may be a little tight... More important, this is a leaf crop, as opposed to root or seed crops that seem to be better suited to intensive methods. Just my .02.

In any case, you're miles ahead of me in prepping the ground. I'm thinking of just plowing up the neighbors yard.

[mrtr33]

Those things took off! Nice photos.

I was thinking about the square foot concept. Crop intensive farming is common in regions with limited resources. Many of the seed varieties, or traits, are specifically designed for particular conditions. In this case, I think the type of plant we are growing needs a bit more room. The leaves may grow 24 - 30 inches long. Guestimating angle and leaf curvature, that puts the approximate spread for the stalk at better than three feet. I'm not no math wiz, but I think one square foot may be a little tight... More important, this is a leaf crop, as opposed to root or seed crops that seem to be better suited to intensive methods. Just my .02.

In any case, you're miles ahead of me in prepping the ground. I'm thinking of just plowing up the neighbors yard.

Yeah, I agree. But I also think that the plants will only grow up to the space their provided, and I can't justify taking up so much of my garden simply for the pleasure of monstrous tobacco plants. Maybe next year. I think I'm already doing better than I did last year. It's all a learning process.

[ashauler]

Fantastic photo's guys......I may have to post some of my own here as soon as I have the additional time to wait for the thread to open.

All of my plants have been transferred to 5" peat pots. They are straining their environment and need to be either moved to the ground or into large pots. I think I'll split them up at that point...some in pots for small decorative plants and others into the ground to reach their full potential. I may move a few this weekend. Nothing special as far as ground preparation for me, just straight into their appropriate spots in the flower beds.....most likely will fertilize with some good old Miracle-gro.

[mrtr33]

So, I finally got around to putting the larger plants in the ground. Photos are included.

As mentioned before, I have chosen to go with 2 - 4X4 boxes. This is probably not enough room for them to grow commercially, but for my experimental purposes, this should do fine. The larger plants were definitely outgrowing their smaller pots, and I found some free time over the holiday weekend to pull this off. The rest of the plants are still being kept as backups, in case one plant dies unexpectedly, a hard rain wipes one out, or we get another freeze.

I built the boxes a few weeks ago. I had an unsightly compost pile from last year in the corner of the backyard, and used the compost from that as the base (that's why you see eggshells, avocado peels, etc. in some of the pictures). I then bought several bags of organic, commercial compost from my local small nursery, to make it look kind of nice on top.

Clockwise, from top left: Black Mammoth, Long Red Leaf, Argentina, Black Mammoth



Clockwise, from top left: Black Mammoth, Florida Sumatra, Black Mammoth, Black Mammoth



The two best plants so far:

Long Red Leaf



Argentina



It will probably take at least a week of these plants settling into their new environment before I see any growth again. The summers are pretty brutal here, so even when growing directions on a plant says to give it "full sun", that actually translates here to "no more than 4 hours of direct sunlight". They are in a partly shaded area of our backyard. I haven't added any fertilizers, and am not sure if I will or not. They've been doing pretty well without any fertilizer, and the compost I planted them in is rather rich. We'll see. I can always add more later.

The other plants that weren't put in the ground will probably grow a little bit more, but unless they get transferred to a different pot, will probably max out their growth soon. One plant in particular was heavily infested with aphids up until Sunday evening. Last night it was looking better, and hopefully a few more spray treatments will knock those out for sure. By the way, the tobacco water didn't work as well as anticipated, but rather a soapy-water concoction seems to work better.

[ashauler]

I just planted the hardiest of my specimens yesterday in some unused space of my fathers garden. They are very spindly compared to the others posted here. It has been an unusually wet and stormy spring, interspersed with overly hot, summer like conditions. It has been difficult to get these bad boys outside and transplanted into larger pots to allow for growth. I'm hoping that they will take off now that they are in the ground. Wouldn't you know we had sever thunderstorms, high winds and heavy rains last night.......they may be destroyed already. I'm avoiding calling out and having Pops take a look.

Here are some photo's.....sad as they are:
http://www.cigarsmokers.com/album.php?albumid=62

[mrtr33]

I wish I had that much space, man. I'm envious. Looking good. How many of each plant did you end up with?

[ashauler]

I wish I had that much space, man. I'm envious. Looking good. How many of each plant did you end up with?

Currently in the garden I have:
4 x Florida Sumatra
2 x Small Stock
2 x Long Red Leaf
1 x Argentina

Still in the peat pots, soon to be transferred to larger planters:
2 x Small Stock
2 x Long Red Leaf
1 x Argentina....though I doubt this little bastard makes it.

[mrtr33]

That's cool. I just don't have room to plant any more than I already have out in the garden.

Are either of you guys having troubles with aphids? They aren't destroying plants, but they sure are annoying. It seems like I need to tend to the aphids every few days or so.

[ashauler]

No pest troubles here.

[mrtr33]

Wanted to provide an update on the tobacco garden.

First, a few notes. It's been about 3 weeks since I put the 8 choice plants in the ground. I still have 6 others, which are currently struggling in their very small pots - not real sure what to do with those. Almost immediately, slugs got to the plants in the ground. A few pictures of the damage are below. I got some slug pellets, and so far, haven't experienced any more problems with slugs. Aphids still come around periodically, and although I've tried stuff from the garden shop and tobacco water, the most effective solution seems to be soapy water.

I water rather thoroughly in the morning, and though the leaves get droopy in these 200+ degree days, they seem to be doing fine. I've noticed, in the last few days, that some of the leaves on some of the plants are starting to yellow a bit (which may or may not be visibly apparent in these crappy photographs). Not sure what's causing this, or if it's part of the process, but it appears to only affect leaves on the bottom part of the plants. The top leaves remain a very dark green. In an effort to combat the leaf discoloration, I assumed that they may be missing some nutrients. This is only a guess. So I decided to break down and get some fertilizer: Espoma Garden-Tone. It looks like dirt, smells like chocolate, and goes on the ground just on the outside of where the runoff of the leaves are. I hope I did it right. That's what the rings around the plants are.

The "Left" Garden: top right is Florida Sumatra, the rest are Small Stalk Black Mammoth


The "Right" Garden: two left plants are Small Stalk Black Mammoth, the top right is Long Red Leaf, and the bottom right is Argentinia


Closer shot of the Long Red Leaf:


Closer shot of the Argentine:


Closer shot of the Florida Sumatra:


Closer shot of one of the better Black Mammoths:


Slug damage:




Aphids (these are dead, but this is what they look like on the plants):


So far, so good. I'm interested to see if the fertilizer has any effect on the discoloration of the leaves, or if it accelerates growth. I'm wondering though, due to the lack of space these plants have in comparison to either Smoked!'s or ashauler's, just how big they'll get.

[ashauler]

One week in the ground. Noticed some bug activity for the first time, and even found a little caterpillar chewing on a leaf. Squished the bastard and applied some insecticidal soap liberally after I fed and watered. Used Miracle Gro mixed per label directions and gave each plant a generous portion.

Whole crop, looking from South to North along the row.
http://www.cigarsmokers.com/album.ph...achmentid=1832



Close up shot of a Florida Sumatra plant....this variety is outperforming all the others.
http://www.cigarsmokers.com/album.ph...achmentid=1833

[mrtr33]

Close up shot of a Florida Sumatra plant....this variety is outperforming all the others.
http://www.cigarsmokers.com/album.ph...achmentid=1833

Nice looking plant. It's interesting you're having so much luck with the Florida Sumatra plant - that's the only one that has been under-performing for me.

Again, I envy the space you have to plant. You must have some awesome soil back there. Have you had it tested? What's it's pH? Our soil here is basically clay (thus the boxes). If I did in my backyard what you did with yours, not only would my plants be flooded, they might get that big at the end of the season.

Let me know if that soap works. What was the name of that stuff?

[ashauler]

The garden area that I have these in has been our family garden since I was a kid. It has proven to be very productive over the years. Never had the soil tested, perhaps that would be interesting to do.

I have no idea what the name of the soap is....I'll look on the bottle next time I'm out and let you know. It has proven successful for my Father over the years.

[ashauler]

O.K., 18 days in the ground. Let's see if I can post photo's:

Here is Planting Day, 12 June (sorry, I hadn't figured out how to rotate the pic yet):


Here is the crop on 20 June:


And here we are this morning:


The three closest plants to the camera were just transplanted from pots to the ground today. I fear I let them get too big in the pots and that they will suffer serious transplant shock as a result. The stem and leaves seem to be very healthy though, so I expect them to recover and do fine.

All four Florida Sumatra plants are doing very well:


The best of the sumatras....though not by much:


Argentine (the lone survivor):


Long Red Leaf:


Long Red Leaf transplants:


Small Stock Black Mammoth:


Small Stock transplants:


The insecticidal soap that I am using is Safer.....that's the brand, not only the expectation. You can see some minor pest damage on a few of the leaves, however, it is just that, very minor and not happening on every plant. I did not reapply the soap today....didn't feel the need.

Overall I'm very happy with the progress so far. Though it is hard to tell the size of the plants from the photo's, the Florida Sumatra plants are about 14" tall, or so. I'll use a yardstick in the next series of photo's to provide some scale.

I have also found a forum that has a wealth of information regarding the planting, tending, harvesting, curing, fermenting....etc, of tobacco. Seems to be a good bunch of people with a huge amount of knowledge to draw from. One member has 7000 plants in his field.

Mark,
Thanks so much for allowing me to participate in this project!!!

[mrtr33]

Awesome pics, man. Good call on the yardstick - I'll have to do that next time I take pics (I'll try this week).

I find it interesting that you're having so much luck with the Florida Sumatra. I only have one of those, and it's the weakest plant by far. I still have several plants in pots, but only because I don't have any room for them and can't bear to throw them out. How long are your leaves?

Thanks for the tip on the insecticide; the insect problem I had when I put the plants in the ground seems to have dissipated. I'm guessing it's part of the hardening process once the plants are introduced to the elements.

I've been meaning to check out that forum you sent over, I just can't find the time - yet. I'm anxious to show these plants off, though, and the inevitable question looms in the back of my mind: what do I do with them once they are fully matured? Are you going to try drying and curing them?

[ashauler]

snip........ How long are your leaves?

snip......I'm anxious to show these plants off, though, and the inevitable question looms in the back of my mind: what do I do with them once they are fully matured? Are you going to try drying and curing them?

The plants I just transplanted this morning have leaves that completely cover my hand, so maybe 7" x 4" or so. I would guess the plants in the ground, the larger specimens anyway, have leaves in the 10" range. I'll measure them next time I'm out to be more exact.

Yes, I plan on trying to dry and cure any harvestable leaves that I am able to obtain. Fermenting will most likely pose the greatest challenge, depending on when they ripen. If this happens in late August or September I may have warm enough temps to ferment for a month or so......which, from what I've read is way too short. However, on the forum I gave you, there are some interesting options for home-made kilns and fermenting chambers just for this situation. We'll see.

I'm just starting to read up on the harvesting/drying/fermenting process now. Hopefully by harvest time I'll have some kind of plan.

[mrtr33]

Thought I'd update the progress of the tobacco garden.

So, the weather here lately has been kind of rainy and overcast, with humidity levels pretty high. As I'd hoped, the plants have been responding to this heat/humidity/wetness combination well. Photos are below.

The "left" garden (all are Black Mammoth except for top right, it's Florida Sumatra)



The "right" garden (two on the left are Black Mammoth, top right is Long Red Leaf and bottom right is Argentina)



Taking a cue from ashauler with his last update, I included a measuring stick in some of the individual plant shots. For a few of them, I even measured the leaves, which I'll provide where applicable, but the mosquitoes were feasting on me, so I didn't have the patience to get accurate readings on them all. I'm measuring plant height here as the highest point on the plant itself; it may not be the most accurate way to depict it - someone correct me if this isn't the case.

Florida Sumatra
largest leaf length: unavailable
largest leaf width: unavailable
plant height: 18"
This plant has really surprised me. Refer to previous posts as to why; it started out as kind of a "runty" plant, and just never really took off like the others did. With this latest spell of weather, though, it's done really well.



Black Mammoth
largest leaf length: 13.5"
largest leaf width: 8.25"
plant height: 18"
This plant looks to be growing "out" more than it's growing "up". I mean, it's still growing in height, but everything about this plant seems squatty to me. The leaves are broader and fatter, but not as long. So far, so good; I have a total of 5 of these in the garden now.



Long Red Leaf
largest leaf length: 15"
largest leaf width: 7.5"
plant height: 20"
The biggest plant in the garden now. It might not look like it, but these pictures don't do it justice; it has the best looking leaves, the best color in the leaves, and the thickest stalk. The leaves are very long and narrower than, say, the Black Mammoth leaves. As it looks right now, if I do end up drying any leaves, this plant will provide the best of them.



Argentina
largest leaf length: 14"
largest leaf width: 7"
plant height: 18"
Probably my second best plant. For a seed that I didn't think would even grow (because it was designated and sold for growing in the 2009 season), this plant has done quite well. It also sports a thick stalk, good leaf color and rigidity, and looks like it will match up well with the Long Red Leaf in size. Time will tell.



This is really getting good. Next week I'll probably feed again; the forecast calls for a slight possibility of rain all week with the temps in the mid-90's; then we have a whole week of 100's. We'll see how they do. I also wanted to point out that the leaves droop every day due to the heat; it looks like they are dehydrated and droopy. I've tried watering twice a day at different times of the day in order to keep them from doing that, thinking that it may be hurting the plants. I don't think it's hurting anything, though.

Thanks for reading.

[ashauler]

Well, I haven't been able to work much with the crop since my mobility is limited at the moment, but I was able to con my wife into taking these photos on 8 July. Sadly, I wasn't persuasive enough to get measurements or a yard-stick included. Hopefully I'll be able to get out in the garden this weekend and get some detailed statistics for each variety.

Overall the crop is doing very well, imo. You will see some insect damage on some of the leaves, however, it seems to be confined to just a couple of plants. Perhaps my application of the insecticidal soap has been uneven or it was washed off some leaves more than others during some recent rains we have had. It has been hot an dry here for several consecutive days now.....hi's in the upper 90's with heat indexes of 107+.

Overall Crop view:


Florida Sumatra. 2nd plant from the fence shows some insect damage. I would guess the tallest plant is approximately 20" or so:


The lone wolf Argentine. The white spots visible on the leaves is residue from the insecticidal soap. One small spot of damage to one of the lower leaves....I may remove it next time I'm out. I have been pulling some of the bottoms leaves of all the plants if they yellow or appear to be more rounded than the main leaves. No ill effects from this "pruning" that I've seen yet.:


Long Red Leaf. First pic is of the plants set on the original planting date of 12 June. 2nd pic is of the supplemental planting on 30 June.:




Small Stalk Black Mammoth. Again, first pic is of the original planting and 2nd is the supplemental:

[mrtr33]

That is a beautiful picture there. Nice looking plants.

How far apart did you space your plants?

Unfortunately, I, too, have been neglecting everyday care over the plants. But for the most part, they've been doing just fine without me. I haven't had much problem with pests since my initial aphid infestation. Something that helped me was spraying not only on the top of the leaves, but also on the underside of the leaves. I think I did that every other day for about a week - that seemed to do the trick.

My newest thing now is keeping the leaves in prime condition - a few fallen twigs (my garden is underneath the outstretched arms of a pecan tree in our neighbor's yard) have punctured holes in a few leaves. Nothing too bad, but not desirable, either.

The weather here last week was hot and wet. This week so far has been overcast and still hot. The humidity level is ridiculous. I think the plants are loving it. I've been watering almost every morning if it didn't rain the day/night before. I'll feed them again this weekend.

I'll also get some pictures up this weekend.

Does anyone have any idea about when to harvest these leaves? If I let them go, will they just keep getting bigger? It won't get cold here until December, and even then, it won't freeze until probably the end of January. I seem to remember reading something somewhere that tobacco plants are actually perennials - you can cut them down to a stub, and supposedly, they'll grow back. I do know they drain much of the nutrients out of the soil, so I wouldn't imagine that would work for long.

[ashauler]

That is a beautiful picture there. Nice looking plants.

How far apart did you space your plants?

Thank you. I spaced them about 18" apart. From the looks of it that may not have been far enough....we'll see.

Unfortunately, I, too, have been neglecting everyday care over the plants. But for the most part, they've been doing just fine without me. I haven't had much problem with pests since my initial aphid infestation. Something that helped me was spraying not only on the top of the leaves, but also on the underside of the leaves. I think I did that every other day for about a week - that seemed to do the trick.

Yes, I do spray top and bottom of the leaves with each application. With the limited damage that is evident so far, I don't think I'll put much more effort into pest control than I am currently.

My newest thing now is keeping the leaves in prime condition - a few fallen twigs (my garden is underneath the outstretched arms of a pecan tree in our neighbor's yard) have punctured holes in a few leaves. Nothing too bad, but not desirable, either.

Yes, this was my intention also, especially with the Sumatra since they will be the primary wrapper leaves in this crop. I'm not so concerned with the others as they will be used as filler and binder....well, Long Red will be the binder with small stock and argentine being the fillers.

The weather here last week was hot and wet. This week so far has been overcast and still hot. The humidity level is ridiculous. I think the plants are loving it. I've been watering almost every morning if it didn't rain the day/night before. I'll feed them again this weekend.

Hot and humid here as well....not so much overcast, partly cloudy at best. We are expecting rain this evening or tomorrow. I feed the plants, miracle grow for tomatos, weekly during one of the watering sessions. Seems to be working just fine.

I'll also get some pictures up this weekend.

Does anyone have any idea about when to harvest these leaves? If I let them go, will they just keep getting bigger? It won't get cold here until December, and even then, it won't freeze until probably the end of January. I seem to remember reading something somewhere that tobacco plants are actually perennials - you can cut them down to a stub, and supposedly, they'll grow back. I do know they drain much of the nutrients out of the soil, so I wouldn't imagine that would work for long.

Look forward to your photo's.....I'll try to get measurements on my next batch.

As far as harvesting goes, I'm just really starting to read up on that. From what I understand, the leaves "ripen" in stages. When they ripen, they get much thicker and may even "bubble" a bit or start to turn colors....this is when you would make the decision to either stalk harvest or harvest the ripe primings one at a time, from the bottom up. I haven't learned enough about it to make a decision on which way to go yet, but I'll keep reading and let you know what I decide.